【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT, why use it instead of official FT... and IGNORE THE STICKY POST too?

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w7n
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【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT, why use it instead of official FT... and IGNORE THE STICKY POST too?

Postby w7n » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:34 am

To every person reading the post: If you're a 0CC-FT user, I propose that you post your 0CC modules in this forum while neglecting the no-0CC rule. By this point it's already bullshit (and the reason for that has already turned invalid), and so is anyone who still enforces the rule.

>What's 0CC-FT?
It's a fork of the official made by HertzDevil. It can be obtained on several sites including http://hertzdevil.info/programs/
Moreover, it's the de facto official tracker among experienced users.

>Why use 0CC-FT?
First of all three things:
1, at the very least, 0CC-FT modules can be made compatible with the official if you don't use extra features -- in which case 0CC is basically the same as the official and is not harder to use.
2, 0CC-FT fixes some bugs in the official, including a bug about using a multichip combination with N163 (which glitches up terribly in the official version)
3, most importantly, as a project 0CC-FT is active while the official is basically dead. There will be more extra features in 0CC-FT to come, while we can't predict if FT 0.5.0 stable will come before GTA VIII is released or even before Nintendo goes bankrupt.

And then the extra features. Now, one doesn't need to use all extra features but at least some of them will come in handy.
To name a few:
> Find / Replace function, along with more functions that make the tracker actually easier to operate with.
> Multichip NSFs can be exported. And to use multichip, one doesn't have to go through the pain of exporting text -- writing the expansion byte -- importing text.
> Groove option instead of song speed, equivalent to a repeating pattern of Fxx effects.
> Scheme arpeggio, one of the most useful functions that allows much more freedom in arps. For example:
A major arp is 0 4 7 12, and a minor arp is 0 3 7 12, and another variant of the major arp(I/V) is 0 5 9 12. In 0CC, you won't need three instruments for these, instead you write 0 x y 12 in the arpeggio sequence (select 'scheme') and then use the 0xy effect to fill in the missing x and y.
Another example:
0 12 x x+12 y y+12 with x=4, y=7 is equivalent to 0 12 4 16 7 19 (C-HiC-E-HiE-G-HiG)
> Hardware envelope control. A cool example is to make triangle 'growl' sound effects seen in Blaster Master, or frog croaking as in Gimmick!.
> Better SN5B support.


Why have the music boards of the forum gone downhill?
I will say this again: The no-0CC rule is RETARDED. And it contributed to the decline in activity, feedback and quality in the music boards.
We've discussed this problem in the Discord chat earlier, and what Hertz said basically is the same as what I implied in http://forums.famitracker.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3073:

People are reluctant to post 0CC stuff in the forums, and then more advanced users form their own groups (the Discord chat etc.) and discuss about stuff, thus leading to a vicious cycle that: Newbies post more, advanced people post less, newbies have little to learn from and their standards for 'good' tracks downgrade, advanced people find that they can't get proper feedback in the forums and post even less...
And also, the majority of those who use official FT instead of 0CC are newbies (anyone who's at least decent would find a feature they like in 0CC, most likely multichip / scheme arp) hence the quality of forum modules will not go up.

The reason why I've not made this clear before is that I have been issued a board warning for this, and jsr is at least nicer to people who give feedback...
Except that now that the only 'active' mod here also says 'meh' to the no-0CC rule and doesn't give a shit about moderating 0CC modules, and jsr's project is now practically dead.
So now I can give this rule my middle finger without ever caring about being banned or whatsoever.
To the sticky post of the music boards, along with those who still enforce the rules whether or not they're mods, FUCK YOU.

Here, I'll offer some examples of 0CC-FT modules I made myself, and explain the extra features the modules use that make them incompatible with the official.
All can be opened with 0CC-FT 0.3.13.

Luka Luka Night Fever.ftm
(284.7 KiB) Downloaded 82 times

Reason for incompatibility: N163 multichip bug not fixed in the official tracker. You'll find that the FDS chip is completely missing.

MLPFiM OP.ftm
(40.2 KiB) Downloaded 70 times

Reason for incompatibility: Scheme arp, hardware envelope control on the triangle channel

Yuri Shura-Shu-Shu-Shu.ftm
(220.83 KiB) Downloaded 49 times

Kakushinteki Metamaru Fo-ze!.ftm
(108.65 KiB) Downloaded 51 times

FCP2015 21st and 7th respectively. Reason for incompatibility: Scheme arp


Hey, I'll call the police!
If you think that keeping the no-0CC rule is good for the music boards, do it.
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Last edited by w7n on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:00 am, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby TheJuanCarlos64 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:37 am

It works fine with the lastest 0cc-FT 0.3.14.5 and BETA 5 Is Super Buggy!

w7n, Seriously Dude!
Why are you make 0CC FTM Module Songs without permission!


The Good News.
So HertzDevil was working and Created a new Forum! http://hertzdevil.info/forum Is not ready yet!
HertzDevil wrote:Because the number of 0CC-FamiTracker users continues to rise, and I am personally doing more code projects

I'm gonna contact with HertzDevil because w7n Making a 0CC Thread!

PD: Sorry My English is not good

Ah and There is the rule!
Be polite. No flaming or harassing of other members
Don't Post 0CC or Unofficial Modules Here!
It's me! JonKaruzu

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Raijin
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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby Raijin » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:56 am

Thanks for making this thread and informing people. I was thinking about making one myself to inform people about Hertz's new forum, but I didn't because I thought there was a reason he didn't do it himself yet.

One thing I don't understand is the mentality of 0CC being hard for whatever reason. Why? It's literally the same, but with more features. You can use it just like vanilla FT if you want to, and learn the new features later if they seem hard at first.

By the way, who cares that this thread was made? It's a thread informing people about 0CC Famitracker. Since this forum is pretty much dead, there's no reason not to spread the word.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby Shywolf » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:15 am

Raijin wrote:... I was thinking about making one myself to inform people about Hertz's new forum, but I didn't because I thought there was a reason he didn't do it himself yet.

Well, he did, but I guess the thread's being overlooked somehow. Perhaps it'll get more attention now.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby Raijin » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:01 am

Huh... I completely missed that for some reason. Oh well, carry on.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby punkofthedeath » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:05 am

i think it's ok for the module in this forum if the module can be opened with official ft despite extra feature like multiple expansion chip.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby HertzDevil » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Raijin wrote:One thing I don't understand is the mentality of 0CC being hard for whatever reason. Why? It's literally the same, but with more features. You can use it just like vanilla FT if you want to, and learn the new features later if they seem hard at first.

Pretty much this.

Taking this a step further: when people first encounter 0CC-FamiTracker, including the OP, they are often preoccupied with the new features, overlooking the other improvements that have taken place there. Being able to restore the Fxx commands from earlier frames does not make 0CC-FT hard. Being able to select any block of patterns in the frame editor and then transpose all of them at once does not make 0CC-FT hard. Being able to replace all S04's in a selection with S05's does not make it hard. Yet it appears that most 0CC-FT users have not even used half of its features, module-side or interface.

However, I admit that very little is done to communicate with the public; as far as I know, there is not a single 0CC-FT tutorial out there. This definitely presents a barrier to entry when compared to the vanilla build where Kraid's Hideout (NES) has been covered for over 70 times on YouTube. The FamiTracker documentation has been out of sync ever since the first arp scheme mod release, and I never bothered to make any help file that is more official than the readme, and even then, newcomers will prefer being guided by tutorial videos rather than manually figuring things out or asking them as bug reports. Re-enabling my forum is the first step towards rectifying that, among other things.

So let's assume for the sake of argument that someone else made 0CC-FamiTracker. These are the only reasons of using the vanilla builds that I can think of:

  • 0.4.2: Exporting overclocked NSFs, as less code means less lag
  • 0.4.6: Enforcing stable vanilla compatibility (but this will be trivially achieved in 057-FT)
  • 0.5.0 beta: Enforcing upstream vanilla compatibility, since 0CC-FT's implementation of the beta features is not yet complete for technical reasons
The only advantage of enforcing compatibility is so that the modules can be posted here, except that once the most active users switch to 0CC-FamiTracker, they have pretty much stopped caring about this forum, and then even more people leave because the only feedback they receive comes from users who are less experienced. Eventually this will stop those new users from using 0CC-FamiTracker as well.

Also, the unlocked parts of my forum are essentially ready. This FamiTracker forum is bound to remain at the current state whether or not 0CC-FT gets its own.
Constructing Chiptune; Construing 8-Bit. Makes 0CC-FamiTracker and MEGA ZUN.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby w7n » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:57 pm

A new section which I don't want to place in #1.

Why not...?
There's actually one thing that I am concerned of, which is not about the 0CC tracker itself.
As far as I've observed, among more experienced people there's the cancer of blaming trivial things for 'retardation'. You submit a faulty bug report, you should reconsider your purpose on the Internet; you don't know what 'Frame 0x00-0x03' is (in fact the expression itself is meaningless), you're a downright retard. (I have to admit I occasionally do that myself, but in most cases I would simply point them out.)
Now, with people blaming contributors, fewer people would contribute to the manual project; with people blaming newbies, the 0CC forum would drive newbies away. However, one of the reasons for all these efforts is to make 0CC have better accessibility to newbies and make them improve. If people care about that, they should change their attitude.
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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby HertzDevil » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Some more elaboration on why I keep focusing on the interface improvements in 0CC-FamiTracker. Consider these scenarios:

  • If you cannot use grooves, you can always place the repeating Fxx commands on one of the tracks.
  • If you cannot use arpeggio schemes, you can usually split each chord into an individual instrument.
  • If you cannot use multiple expansion chips, you can use syncplay.exe instead, or access only the subset of chip configurations that work also in the vanilla builds.
Now consider:

  • If you cannot restore the commands from previous rows upon playing from the cursor, you will not repeat all active effects on every row.
  • If you cannot replace all 462 commands with 472 in a few steps, and about a hundred of patterns use it, you will not replace any one at all.
  • If you cannot transpose your song while keeping all percussion instruments unchanged, then depending on your build and your module data, you might not transpose every pattern manually.
While we are also on the subject of bug reports, compare the first page with the remaining pages of the bug report board here. Luckily most bug reports for 0CC-FT have so far been authentic.
Constructing Chiptune; Construing 8-Bit. Makes 0CC-FamiTracker and MEGA ZUN.

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Re: 【For everyone who wants to git gud】What's 0CC-FT and why use it instead of official FT?

Postby Yung Gotenks » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:38 pm

I tried to download the lastest version to check it out and Google Chrome Said it was a virus..
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