Multi-Chip Modules

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iYamWhatIYam
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Multi-Chip Modules

Postby iYamWhatIYam » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:11 am

Like HertzDevil's 0CC-FamiTracker, I would like to see the option of using multiple sound-expansion chips in the main build of FamiTracker 0.5.0. (If the Famicom can't handle that, then I apologize; I really have no knowledge of the NES' APU capabilities. I just thought it would be a nice addition to have in the official build.)
I have permanently switched to 0CC-FamiTracker. If and when JSR decides to update vanilla FamiTracker at this point is entirely out of the question for me.
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Pencildragon
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby Pencildragon » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:35 am

From my understanding, nothing is stopping you from using multiple chips at once on actual hardware(aside from physical space within a cartridge and the size of the NSF), though I believe the FDS and N163 have conflicts with RAM usage and the VRC6 and VRC7 have some kind of conflict as well, though both of those instances can be fixed by using something like another micro manager. However, given that no games ever did this on the Famicom, we have no actual hardware to base this functionality off.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to know more than minimal information about the Famicom hardware and this is purely based off what I've heard.
Also, I've heard that at some point in the past(and still maybe in the future) actual multichip support was planned, it's just on the back burner until other things got/get sorted out first.

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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby Shywolf » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:53 am

Pencildragon wrote:Also, I've heard that at some point in the past(and still maybe in the future) actual multichip support was planned, it's just on the back burner until other things got/get sorted out first.

This is indeed the case.

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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby ImATrackMan » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:12 am

Pencildragon wrote:I believe the FDS and N163 have conflicts with RAM usage and the VRC6 and VRC7 have some kind of conflict as well

The VRC7 and SN5B have an address conflict as well, but that didn't stop Terra Network Systems.
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NicolasMaeder
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby NicolasMaeder » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:49 am

Shywolf wrote:
Pencildragon wrote:Also, I've heard that at some point in the past(and still maybe in the future) actual multichip support was planned, it's just on the back burner until other things got/get sorted out first.

This is indeed the case.


Will FamiTracker support multichip FTMs made before the addition of the upcoming multichip support feature? By the way Shywolf, I notice that your previous profile image was a Touhou character named "Alice". I like your profile images because they're cute! :D
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby Tromino » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:58 pm

IIRC it's going to be completely changed from what it is now.
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rainwarrior
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby rainwarrior » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:16 pm

Pencildragon wrote:From my understanding, nothing is stopping you from using multiple chips at once on actual hardware...

This is a rather empty statement. It's technically possible to build any hardware you want.

What's stopping you is how much time and money you're willing to invest in putting that hardware together. The number of people out there who actually have multi-chip hardware ready is very small indeed, and there are very practical reasons why this is true.

As for the conflicts, none of the "conflicts" mentioned are an insurmountable problem. There are ways to deal with all of them. It's not true that X has to conflict with Y; there is a way to solve it for every combination you can make in an NSF. The reason the conflicts came up is because we didn't bother solving these problems until people started trying to do this stuff on hardware. It wasn't necessary to come up with a solution for these things because nobody was doing it until relatively recently.

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Pencildragon
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby Pencildragon » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:14 am

rainwarrior wrote:
Pencildragon wrote:From my understanding, nothing is stopping you from using multiple chips at once on actual hardware...

This is a rather empty statement. It's technically possible to build any hardware you want.

What's stopping you is how much time and money you're willing to invest in putting that hardware together. The number of people out there who actually have multi-chip hardware ready is very small indeed, and there are very practical reasons why this is true.

Which I understand, back then it'd be expensive both on the system's end(CPU power, ect.) and manufacturing end to make and use cartridges with multiple chips in them. Now, if I had to make an uneducated guess, I'd say it's probably expensive nowadays because this is both "obsolete" hardware and you'd need custom(or at least newly manufactured if it became more widespread) hardware.

rainwarrior wrote:As for the conflicts, none of the "conflicts" mentioned are an insurmountable problem. There are ways to deal with all of them. It's not true that X has to conflict with Y; there is a way to solve it for every combination you can make in an NSF. The reason the conflicts came up is because we didn't bother solving these problems until people started trying to do this stuff on hardware. It wasn't necessary to come up with a solution for these things because nobody was doing it until relatively recently.

This makes me very hopeful then! VRC6 + VRC7 is really interesting to play around with, but no NSF's I've tried to export work.

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iYamWhatIYam
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby iYamWhatIYam » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:48 am

I like the way the conversation is going. But, to recap:
Using multiple expansion modules will eat up a lot of the CPU storage, right? But it is still very much possible to do so?
Just a quick couple of questions.

By the way:
ImATrackMan wrote:website not in English

Can this be translated? I tried Google Translate, but it says the page is already in English. I'm confused.
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Re: Multi-Chip Modules

Postby MiniMacro » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:35 pm

>google translate
wow this is total BS
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